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Finding community can be difficult. But author Luke Burgis thinks the real challenge begins once we’ve found it and we’re subject to social pressures to conform. Listen as Burgis and EconTalk’s Russ Roberts trace the tension between individuals and their tribes through the foundational frameworks, such as family and school, that help forge our identities.
Burgis argues that the disappearance of traditional rites of passage bodes ill for major life commitments such as marriage, and recounts his personal journey from Wall Street through the Great Books in search of a strong, differentiated self. He also draws lessons for today’s communities from Saint Benedict’s 1,500-year-old guide for monastic life and describes the moving ritual he practiced with his father before he died.
Listen to the episode here.
Related Sources
Bi, Johnathan. “Johnathan Bi on Mimesis and René Girard.” Interview by Russ Roberts. EconTalk, November 21, 2022.
St. Benedict. The Rule of St. Benedict: A Modern Translation (Updated, Easy-to-Read Language with Sidenotes). Translated by Peter Northcutt. Modern Saints, 2025.
“Differentiation of Self.” Bowen Center for the Study of the Family.
“David Foster Wallace.” Britannica.
Burgis, Luke. Luke Burgis Official Website.
Burgis, Luke. The One and the Ninety-Nine: Forging Identity in the Age of Social Contagion. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 2024.
Burgis, Luke. Wanting: The Power of Mimetic Desire in Everyday Life. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 2021.
Haven, Cynthia. “René Girard, Mimesis, and Conflict.” Interview by Russ Roberts. EconTalk, June 24, 2024.
Hoffer Project. “Eric Hoffer.”
Homer. The Odyssey. Translated by Robert Fagles. New York: Penguin Books, 1996.
Klein, Daniel. “The Theory of Moral Sentiments, Episode 4—A Discussion of Part III.” Interview by Russ Roberts. EconTalk, April 29, 2009.
Levin, Yuval. “Yuval Levin on A Time to Build.” Interview by Russ Roberts. EconTalk, March 2, 2020.
McLuhan, Marshall. “Marshall McLuhan,” Wikipedia.
Smith, Adam. Adam Smith Works.
Vermillion, James. “Schoolwork as Soul Work: What Is Taught Beneath the Teaching.” James Vermillion, April 22, 2026.
About the Speakers
Luke Burgis is a veteran entrepreneur and author. He is the founder and director of CLUNY, a multidisciplinary organization that integrates intellectual, spiritual, and practical knowledge (including business and technological)—that is a home to people seeking more meaningful ways to work and live. Luke studied business at NYU Stern before doing graduate work in philosophy and earning an S.T.B. in Theology from the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in Rome. He’s the author of The One and the Ninety-Nine: Forging Identity in the Age of Social Contagion and Wanting: The Power of Mimetic Desire in Everyday Life, which popularized the work of cultural anthropologist René Girard.
Russ Roberts is a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution and president of Shalem College in Jerusalem. In 2006, he founded the award-winning weekly podcast EconTalk, which has featured guests including Milton Friedman, Martha Nussbaum, Christopher Hitchens, Agnes Callard, Bill James, Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Amor Towles, and Emily Oster. All 875+ episodes remain available free of charge at EconTalk.org and reach an audience of more than 125,000 listeners in 200 countries.